Should I Become a Mom if I Have ADHD? How Pregnancy Influences ADHD and How to Treat Your ADHD when Pregnant with Therapist and Mom-to-Be Candin Phillips #212
“Should I become a mom if I have ADHD?”
Here’s an episode you’ve been asking for - pregnancy and ADHD! You ask me so many questions around pregnancy friendly symptoms management, ADHD medication while pregnant, and the big question of should I even have kids if I can’t take care of myself???
It’s been almost 6 years since I was pregnant, so I called in a friend who’s in the thick of it.
Today’s guest is Candin Phillips of Humanity Hive. Candin is a licensed therapist with over ten years of experience working with people with ADHD. While her little one just arrived, she was pregnant with her second child during the recording of this conversation.
Candin and I recount some of the struggles that come with being pregnant with ADHD and share what’s working for us and our clients. We discuss how pregnancy can affect your ADHD (spoiler alert: it’s different for everyone!) and answer YOUR questions submitted through Instagram and my free facebook group.
Neither Candin nor I are licensed medical doctors, so please take all of our advice as advice you got from friends and talk with your medical team to find the best decision for you.
Links mentioned in this episode:
Studies on meds and pregnancy/breastfeeding:
Methylphenidate and risk of birth defects
ADHD Medications and Breastfeeding
First Trimester In Utero Exposure to Methylphenidate
The book Candin mentioned: The House on the Cerulean Sea
Looking for support on how to treat your ADHD beyond medicine? Grab my free list of strategies and ADHD treatments at patriciasung.com/beyond-meds
Thank you to our sponsor, Skylight Calendars, whose support allows me to share this podcast with you for free!
I only partner with brands I know and love, so I bet you’ll love this amazing digital calendar as much as I do - it will help keep your family coordinated and less stressed.
Use the coupon code PATRICIA to get 10% off your family calendar at SkylightCal.com
Candin Phillips 00:00
Whereas I didn't ask for anything at all my first go round. I didn't really have anyone to ask either. So it was this very much like Bootstrap mentality that I'm trying to make sure I'm not doing this time when I've got some people around me.
Patricia Sung 00:12
Are you overwhelmed by motherhood and barely keeping your head above water? Are you confused and frustrated by how all the other moms make it look so easy, you can figure out how to manage the chaos in your mind, your home, or your family, I get your mama, parenting with ADHD is hard. Here is your permission slip to let go of the Pinterest worthy visions of organization and structure fit for everyone else. Let's do life like our brains do life creatively, lovingly, and with all our might. When we embrace who we are and how our brains work, we can figure out how to live our lives successfully, and in turn, lead our families well, at the end of the day, we just want to be good moms. but spoiler alert, you are already a great mom. ADHD does not mean you're doomed to be a hot mess, Mama, you can rewrite your story from shame spiral to success story. And I'll be right here beside you to cheer you on. Welcome to motherhood in ADHD.
Patricia Sung 01:18
Hey there successful mama. It's your friend Patricia Sung, who today is an episode that you all have been asking for for a while. And it's about being pregnant and having ADHD. I invited my Instagram friend Candace Phillips of humanity hive here today because she is currently pregnant. And you know, there's a lot that I've forgotten over the last five years. And I wanted to have this conversation with you over. Now what does it look like to be a mom with ADHD? There's actually quite a few folks in this community who are considering being a mom, but not a mom yet and taking in all the information about like, Does this make sense for you? Like, what can you do going in?
Patricia Sung 02:02
I have all these worries, like, you know, research gathering phase of like, Does this make sense for my life. And what I absolutely adored about this conversation with Candin is that not only is she an open book, in what she's dealing with, but we ran through the gamut from before you get pregnant to how it is being pregnant and the postpartum and that full like, you know, journey from before to after, in what are some of the struggles that we run into in being moms and growing a baby. It's who it is a gift. And it's also hard work, Ken and I got to commiserate a bit on the things that were hard. But I also want you to know that if this is something you're thinking about, and you're not sure if it's right for you, it is also a beautiful thing to become a mother. So wow, oh, the struggles are always always another one. Because as soon as you think you got, you know, kids figured out, they grow and change in their new phases, and you got a whole new set of challenges to figure out.
Patricia Sung 03:06
It is a really beautiful gift to be able to watch someone grow and help them become the person that you hope them to be. And not to say that I expect my kids to show up a certain way, but to know that they can be happy, and that I can teach them all the things that I've learned so that hopefully they need less therapy than me
Patricia Sung 03:29
that I wouldn't trade it. As hard as it is as difficult as it is I wouldn't trade it. So let's dive into our conversation with Candin. Candin Phillips is a licensed therapist with over 10 years experience in the field as well as being an ADHD coach. She has on the background of the clinical experiences, but also as a mom herself with ADHD. I absolutely adore her honesty in the way that she shares vulnerably on social media and is a beacon of light for our community in sharing the tough stuff. So let's go ahead and dive in. Let's welcome Candon to the show. How are you doing this morning? I am good. How are you? Hanging in at school?
Patricia Sung 04:10
Day to day it's very rainy. Um, yeah. Which always? Right. Okay, random question. Do you feel like the weather affects you are as somebody with ADHD?
Candin Phillips 04:22
Oh, massively.
Candin Phillips 04:23
Yeah. I think I did a post not too long ago about how we need to eat and have sunshine and the amount of people that were like, Oh my gosh, I'm solar powered. The dopamine serotonin combo that I get from Sun is unreal. Yeah, my mood is massively affected. If I can just sit outside for a minute. I'm like, Oh, I don't hate everything. I feel I feel good.
Patricia Sung 04:45
It's like suddenly like I'm just a plant. I just need some food and water inside and I'll be okay. Actually. You can't see me on the podcast, but I bought a little plant for my desk and it's looking very sad.
Candin Phillips 04:55
Oh, it looks like my indoor plants. I can't do an indoor like save my life and you
Patricia Sung 04:59
usually fairly decent with plants. But this little guy is the only one here at my desk and he just gets neglected.
Candin Phillips 05:06
It's Sorry.
Candin Phillips 05:08
It's even a succulent. I was like, it's very little watering involved. But that's what everyone tells me that I could do a succulent. I'm like, You have no idea outside ones that got inside. They're gonna drown or starve or something. Yeah, it's not my greatest challenge. But anyways,
Patricia Sung 05:25
would you just share a little bit about us? Like, how did you come to find out that you had ADHD? The like, Reader's Digest version, obviously of it. Now, this is clearly your specialty. This is how you help people every day. But how did you end up here?
Candin Phillips 05:38
Yeah, absolutely. Technically, I guess I got diagnosed somewhere in college. My memory wants to say it was probably going into my sophomore year, I did not have a thorough, extensive diagnostic meeting. My brother hasn't My mother has it. Had it? And I sat down and basically talked a little bit about some of my struggles.
Candin Phillips 05:59
And she was like, Yeah, when's the family here? Try this man. And that was kind of how it went. I think I even remember the first medicine being a non stimulant. I was like, this isn't really doing much for me. And I kind of dropped it and almost kind of forgot that I had it if that makes any sense. Like, that's not even full. That whole like you have ADHD thing was I did not even think about it. Obviously went through school, became a therapist, and kind of remembered like, Oh, I got kind of ADHD, but going through the program, you're just taught the basics of the DSM diagnostics, like it's bare minimum. And I can cringe a little bit. I used to work with kids, almost primarily in the beginning. And I would tell parents, you know, they're gonna outgrow it, it's gonna be fine. They won't need medicine forever. Like we that's what we were taught. That's what we were told me. I was like, you know, I don't even take medicine anymore. I tried it that one time.
Candin Phillips 06:47
I had no idea really what it meant. And then many years into my career kind of did a deep dive. I think I was struggling with a kid that I was working with behaviorally, we just couldn't figure out what was going on. And I did a deep dive ADHD just like searching through stuff and found some ADHD articles, I think on attitude mag, which I loved that it was, you know, medically verified, and all that stuff. I was like, Holy crap, this is a beast of a diagnosis, like, half of our caseload has this. And we're looking at it from the wrong approach. So yeah, I learned how to help them better start educating. You know, my fellow clinicians, teachers, paid a lot more attention to my own treatment, tried medicine again, and just kind of ended up here. It's the thing that stuck. And I realized just got most of us counselors were we're working with ADHD all the time. And we have no idea. Really what that means. And that's why we usually feel stuck, because we know this much about it. So it's morphed into creating a humanity hive paid to just for like, passion project. And now here I am doing coaching, which is wild podcast. So yeah, just a snowball of really cool stuff.
Patricia Sung 08:00
When you said, like, we only know this much, which if you can't see us, we're like holding up the little like, you know, inch wide fingers. This, I felt the same way, when I was teaching some of former middle school teacher and like, when you look at your classroom, it's like, 80% of your problems come from 20% of your kids. And usually, it's the ones with ADHD that are, you know, or some sort of, you know, form of neurodiversity that are making things monkey. And I feel the same way. It's like, I just, yeah, like I wish that we had, and we will, we are getting there, we are moving that direction, right, of really equipping the people who are working with the people who are struggling, when you understand the full scope of it, and are really leaning in, it's like, oh, we can make so much more headway. But otherwise, it just feels like that kid who's driving you bonkers in the back a certain period, right?
Candin Phillips 08:51
And we're tossing them the same tips and tricks that we toss every other kid and it's just bouncing off of them. I learned a lot and able to share a lot, which is really great. Because I got, you know, clinicians that I work with that are going oh, that's like gold. I didn't know that. I didn't know that and know that. So like, ah, but there's still so much we don't know.
Patricia Sung 09:09
Yeah.
Patricia Sung 09:11
I guess sticking with with you for a second, what would you say are your greatest strengths that you would relate back to your ADHD?
Candin Phillips 09:20
Oh, incredibly empathetic. I'm told time and time again that there's a skill set in helping people feel seen and heard. And I have the ability to pretty much understand whatever point you're coming from, whether I agree with it or not, I can put myself in that position and go like I see where you came from.
Candin Phillips 09:41
I'm a great problem solver for other people, not always myself. I need someone else to kind of pull me out of my head. But yeah, there's definitely an ability for people to be stuck on something and I can kind of do this a zoom out thing and go Well here are the pieces that are connected and if we did this, you know Tada, which I think serves me well. While doing I do like clinical supervision for other therapists, which is really fun for me, because they come to me, you know, having a process client issues, and I'm just like solving little puzzle pieces and tossing out suggestions. And it's really, it's great fun.Andstrength or weakness, I can live in the moment, depending on whether what the moment isI can fully kind of be present in the fine if that's where it is, andwhich means I have to be careful about where I let my present be. But when I'm mindful of it, it's, it's really fun.
Patricia Sung 10:33
And how do you see your ADHD most affecting your motherhood?
Candin Phillips 10:38
I think emotion regulation. I can get overstimulated really easily. And be snappier or edgier. And even just my communication when I'm not even intending to. It's just this level of edginess that can be there. But I really have to pay attention to.I think the more I dive into recognizing kind of the patterns of when I'm most overstimulated, and when I'm good and kind of tapping into that, that's been really helpful. But definitely that,
Patricia Sung 11:06
and what's one thing that you're really proud of accomplishing, considering that you have ADHD.
Candin Phillips 11:13
Honestly, I can't believe I'm doing this.
Candin Phillips 11:16
You know, we touched all the little pieces of ADHD RSD held me back a lot from wanting to even put a page on Instagram, wanting to show my face on Instagram, and then eventually speaking, and now I'm doing this because my brain wants to tell me, you're going to mess up, you're going to say the wrong things are going to find out your fraud, you're going to do the ADHD thing where you're going to say the wrong thing. And they're going to, like know you to the wall for you're going to be cancelled by it just, you know, goes on and on and on. And my own therapist is like Caden, that's that's not going to happen. I know that my brain says it. It does. And it sounds real real. It sounds real real.
Candin Phillips 11:55
You know? So?
Candin Phillips 11:56
Yeah, I really can't believe them doing anything on a public platform at all.
Patricia Sung 12:04
What do you think made the difference where you were willing to step out and try?
Candin Phillips 12:08
I think feedback. Every time I put a little nugget out there, oh, my gosh, that's really helpful. Please keep doing it. Please keep doing it. Those kinds of messages. When I get those from followers, I don't know that they even realize just like how much that means. Because I'm getting that spot where I'm like, I'm done. Like, you know, algorithms and social media, I'm tired of figuring out what I'm supposed to do and not do that. Every time that happens. Always get a negative, like, I just want you to know, this thing you did was really helpful. Or when you share this that like, changed the world, or now I've got a diagnosis because you gave me the ability to go feel confident to talk. I'm like, okay, like, it reminds me of why
Candin Phillips 12:48
I'm doing it. And it makes me a little braver every time to go. Okay, I'll do a live video, I'll do a podcast, I'll speak instead of just use texts, like, not be scared of my own voice.
Patricia Sung 12:59
For a long time, I still do it now. But for a long time, every single like kind of message that I got every nice email, it didn't matter what it was, I would screenshot it. Uh huh. I had like, a whole pile of them on the days where I was like, This is terrible. Or I'd go back and be like, okay, these five people said, it's a good idea. Okay? I got to keep going and gotta keep going. And those, those tiny little, like, breadcrumbs of encouragement really do mean, a lot.
Candin Phillips 13:26
They do. Yeah. And I tell fellow ADHD, or is that all the time, especially like, therapists or coaches when you get feedback, like put that in a folder, because you're gonna need to read that one day, you're not going to forget that someone told you that you did something great, but you might forget the how that feels like the good feeling of it. So relive it. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
Patricia Sung 13:46
Especially in the days when you get the like, truly comments or, you know, the people with their pitchforks and to go back and be like, No, this is why I do what I do. Right. Not not for not for this. Those people.
Candin Phillips 14:02
Yeah, yeah. And that's hard because you know, and you know, if you're gonna do a little bit of a controversial post, or you're gonna say something, people are gonna jump all over and I kind of have to gear up and even more my husband just so you know, I'm putting out a post so I'm going to probably be checking comments a lot because I don't want negativity bringing down other people and but it keeps me in an anxious state. So those were me down.
Patricia Sung 14:22
Yeah. Oh, that's a good point. Yeah, I don't think I have ever put into words those the it was times where I push the my own comfort zone a little bit farther, is that it is like when I gotta check all the comments and make sure nobody's being ridiculous and I have to delete something. And how do I respond to this? Wait, should I respond? Should I just delete them and there's like, a spiral that goes through and it does take over a large part of your brain capacity for that day.
Patricia Sung 14:48
And yet also, day, yeah, stay present and like the reality of everything else, and you want to be true to who you are and you don't want to shy away from those things, but also knowing they take a large chunk acity out of you
Candin Phillips 15:00
I'm right. And I almost it's almost like I hate it if something goes a little viral, and it's one of those, because then you're trickling that stuff in for a couple of weeks. And it's like, yeah, like, this thing is still giving me you know, negative comments or whatever comment like my energy has to kind of always anxiously be there until it kind of fizzles.
Patricia Sung 15:20
It's like social media is free to receive.
Patricia Sung 15:24
But like when you're putting stuff out there, it's not just the time that you made the video. So the as long as that thing has life, yes, it's still.
Patricia Sung 15:35
Okay. So the reason I asked you to be on today is primarily I could just keep diving into your story, because I love obviously, I love talking to women who have ADHD, and especially in how you end up where you are.
Patricia Sung 15:47
But you are currently pregnant, and you are getting a ton of questions, as do a lot of people, obviously, you know, with the title motherhood in ADHD people come and ask questions like, Where do we even start? How do we even know that this is a good decision? Like, there's so much fear that comes into being a mom, when you're planning for it, you have all the pre fear. And when you're not planning for it, it's dumb to it the current fear, like extra dumping level, like either way,
Patricia Sung 16:15
with a lot of concern and trepidation. And while I often tell moms like that tells me that you really want to be a great mom, right? Anytime that you're worrying.
Patricia Sung 16:26
It's because you want to do this. Well, you want to do right by your family, your kids, it doesn't change the fact that that's it's really hard, right? There's so many fears that can come of that, like, you think it's just going to be the like the easy ones. And then once you dive in, you're like, Oh, what about this problem, you know, and especially with our brains that can go down that, like intrusive thought, or shame spiral that really, you can drag us down very quickly. There's so much to consider. And it's all unknown. So, when moms come to you and ask you like, even moms to be like, I'm thinking about this, like, what should I do?
Patricia Sung 17:04
The great because like telling me the answer.
Candin Phillips 17:08
No, no, I just figured this out a little bit today.
Patricia Sung 17:14
What can you do to treat your ADHD medicines are a great way to help so many people, but they don't work for everyone. And sometimes you're in a place are a season that they're just not going to work out right now. Maybe they're not an option. I have put together a list of a ton of ideas, most of which I either have done or I'm currently doing myself to take care of my ADHD. This is like the full brainstorm list of what you can do to take care of yourself beyond medication, head on over to patriciasung.com/beyond-meds and grab yourself that checklist. That's patriciasung.com/beyond-meds, for a free checklist of all the ways that you can take care of yourself beyond medication.
Patricia Sung 18:09
What do you tell moms who come to you or moms to be and say like, I don't know what to do? Like, should I even be a mom? What's your advice?
Candin Phillips 18:18
You're justified in your fears.
Candin Phillips 18:21
And I think pay attention to what's motivating those fears, why you eat, why you're thinking about becoming a mom, I know for eight years of our marriage, we we weren't gonna have kids at all. We were like, We're childless forever, this isn't gonna happen. And that was true for us for a long time. So I'm always kind of like, wherever you're sitting like respect, where you're sitting, your choice of why you have whatever feeling. But I tried to instill that like having ADHD doesn't mean that you are hopeless, as a human and your ability to give love and support and care for someone. You know, we all experience it differently. I think that's something that we can struggle as a group with ADHD, we tend to think that we're all this cut mold, and we all have the exact same issues or struggles when it's vastly different and how it presents. Yeah. And so remembering that, like, you've done a lot of hard stuff in life already, like you're here, which means you've got the skill set to adapt and to learn and to get over things that are difficult. Like that's all there. This is that.
Candin Phillips 19:23
And it's big, for sure. But you're probably a bit more equipped than you think you are to do the hard stuff. But yeah, it's you know, unless I really got into a conversation with someone and it was like, alright, we're doing like therapy back and forth. We're gonna dive into this for weeks. It's just trying to give hope and encouraging them to be able to talk that through with someone like what are those fears? Where are they coming from? Is it it's about ADHD? Is it about your own upbringing? Is it about you know, what, what is it really? Yeah, so we actually I'm gonna reverse back a second. Yeah. To the women who don't feel like they should be moms. I'll preface it with I don't think everybody
Patricia Sung 20:00
He's meant to be a parent. Like, that isn't that's not some people's back, and that's okay.
Patricia Sung 20:05
But there is so much societal pressure to do that. Oh, yeah. What would be like your best nugget there? For women who are struggling with, like, do it? Can I like, can I just not do that? Is that okay? Yeah. 100%?
Candin Phillips 20:19
Yes, you can.
Candin Phillips 20:21
And that that's a hard thing to know that you are going to have to honestly answer. I mean, you can't go through the grocery store shopping line without someone asking you if you got kids, when you're going to have them if you have one, when you're going to have the next one. Like,
Candin Phillips 20:34
there are these clubs after high school and it's getting engaged, get married, 2.5 kids, pets, a fenced in yard, whatever. And you don't have to join every club. That's okay.
Candin Phillips 20:45
And the tough skin, part of it is probably knowing how you're going to answer those questions, because you're gonna get them all the time, you know, and you can get angry and bitter about it, or just kind of find your way of answering it and moving on and knowing that you've got value and worth and love to give, even without being a mom, having the right response that fits you is wholly unnecessary. Because like you said, if when you don't have kids, people are asking when you don't have them. As soon as you have one, you're like, barely popped out one. And they're like when you have an another one you like, just just hold your horses up and still bleeding. Yes, a minute. seconds. You've done this, right? Why are you asking me this? Like you've clearly forgotten.
Patricia Sung 21:28
Although I always say that there's a reason that we don't remember all the struggle that comes with pregnancy and childbirth, and you know, the newborn stage, because then no one would ever do it.
Patricia Sung 21:39
Never do it again. Because it is really hard. But knowing that like, yeah, there's always going to be another nosy person asking you questions. So having that, you know, canned response, you know that this is just how it's, you want to respond? Because there's always going to be somebody who is this just going to ask Yeah, and push for a very personal question that for some reason the world doesn't think is. And yes, it is none of their business, and yet
Patricia Sung 22:08
seem to stop them.
Patricia Sung 22:12
And yeah, it's easy to get overwhelmed by that it's easy to be frustrated by very unaware people.
Patricia Sung 22:20
But we also can't control them. So knowing how we can deal with it ourselves is, right, the answer to a lot, a lot
Candin Phillips 22:28
of struggles, a lot of struggles, for sure. I think being okay, if that changes for you. Yeah. Like I remember, we would openly talk about how we were choosing not to have kids. And we were very conscientious of checking in with each other. You know, like, where are you on this every few months, we would check in, we did this for years, and I was terrified the day that I left my therapy session and tears realizing I wanted to have a baby. And like one, like, I've been this person who's not having kids, you know, there's little pride there.
Candin Phillips 22:57
And then just what that would do in our relationship and things like that, whatever in different spots, which we were for a little bit. So yeah, I think also just being okay, that you might change one way or the other. And you might not, but like, either one's okay. Yeah, you don't have to be the same person, or their history, like
Candin Phillips 23:16
kind of, we're kind of wired to grow into adapt. And as we get older, you know, this is our first time doing life too. So
Patricia Sung 23:25
I like that. It's my first time doing life. Yeah, I'm not an expert yet.
Candin Phillips 23:29
No, I read that somewhere. I don't even know where I saw it. It was it was like the first time I heard that my parents were doing why for the first time to, like, all of a sudden had a little bit more grace for them. And I was like, Man, that's so true. Like, looking back at my own parents or hopefully my kids looking at that made me go and like I this is my first time doing all of this as well. Like I've never done life before.
Candin Phillips 23:50
Doing my best here.
Patricia Sung 23:55
Okay, so when we look at being pregnant with ADHD, I asked for some some audience questions. And Katherine asked, and let me preface in this whole talk like neither Canada nor I or a medical doctor, so like, This is advice coming from your friend not coming from a doctor. So please consult your doctor on all the advice you hear today. And make sure it's fit for you. And also that whatever works for the two of us, is what works for the two of us and you are your own person. And I have full faith in your autonomy to figure out like, Does this make sense for you? Because we're sharing our stories. That doesn't mean that every mom listening should think the same thing that we do so right. I always like to preface the controversial subjects with like, you don't have to do what I do. This is not black and white law here. Yes. Like when we look at pregnancy and, and ADHD. One of the first questions I usually hear and I'm I'll ask you to win in a sec here. What are some of the freaking questions that you get?
Patricia Sung 24:59
Especially now that you are sharing that you're pregnant. Sure, they're just eating popcorn with them. But Catherine asks, do the hormone changes that you're going through affect your ADHD? Is it going to make it worse? Is it going to make it better? What have you seen not only within you, but in your clients as well? What do you see?
Candin Phillips 25:19
Yeah, I think how it affects us varies human to human. I remember reading a lot about how getting pregnant that for many women, the boost and estrogen almost kind of quote unquote, erase the ADHD like it almost wasn't there during pregnancy. Now it's like, wow, much better. Awesome. That was me. But anyway, yeah. And so I was literally thinking about this this week, I was going okay, so if I was to look at myself, and I'm about halfway through what I say that's been true, no.
Candin Phillips 25:51
But not like across the board, like, you know, I've got my little, you know, what do they say, and you can't see on the video, my my little meager 200 milligrams of caffeine that they say is, you know, quote, unquote, healthy to have you in pregnancy. And I am able to do tasks right now a little bit easier than I thought. But I've also, I think, just this week, gotten a little bit of second trimester energy. Whereas literally, if you've seen any of my posts, I'm like, literally falling asleep on the camera on the couch as I'm trying to make some kind of video. And so, you know, I think me as an ADHD or I always have a lot more of the fatigue side. And whether that's like mental fatigue, or it's because I got the additional like hypermobility pots, kind of stuff, PCOS stuff, I mean, you know, throw a dart and I'm tired.
Candin Phillips 26:35
Those fluctuations hit me really hard. So like any kind of additional drop in energy, definitely, for me brought out more more of the emotion dysregulation. More of my like patients with shorter, I'm exhausted, RSD was higher, because I'm looking around at a house that's messy, and I'm not really able to keep it up. Thankfully, my husband is telling me to get chemo, but you're still working. And our three year old comes home to you at 230. Like, you're still doing a lot of stuff. But your brain wants to be like, No, you're not functioning at 100, whatever percent anymore. It's all gonna depend on the pregnant ADHD person that you talk to. Because we're chemically made up different, our environments are different. Our structures that are naturally in place or not naturally in place are different. You either on your first kid or your second kid, or your third, you know, whatever. Because I think what we do know about ADHD is supports are massively important, cheerleaders, helpers, whatever they are, and so days that I have that I feel better, I would say like, Yeah, I'm doing pretty good with this whole pregnancy and ADHD thing. Whereas I could look back where I had very little to none of that, and my first pregnancy, those days are really hard. So with every question, it's gonna be, it all depends.
Patricia Sung 27:47
I think that's important to hear that it. For some people, they feel really great. And for other people, it's really hard and you don't know what you're gonna get until you get in there. And even if you have some parts that are easier, you may have other parts that are more difficult. Like I can think back to like, my, my fatigue was also like, really hard. I was, I threw up seven months with my first and nine, all nine months, a year until the day my son was born with the second. And so it was just like, hard.
Patricia Sung 28:20
And like, and I can see, like, my emotional regulation was definitely more stressed. But I feel like when I did hit that, like, I did not get a huge uptake in my second trimester with all the throwing up. But like the I do feel like I wasn't as Spacey. So it's like the brain fog was better. Yeah, like it mean, at the beginning, it was rough. But then it was like, I really felt like okay, these are the things we're gonna get done all the nasty kicked in, and we're getting things done. And that part felt more doable. Yeah. And yet also, still really hard. Not exhausted. Yes.
Candin Phillips 28:56
Yeah. I'm glad you said that they had the brain fog, spiciness. That was that's been really hard. And I feel like like this this week, I'm just kind of starting to get to where our brain can absorb things. But and that's been frustrating, because I've been working on kind of building a business. And it involves this website thing that for the love of God, I just cannot conceptualize how to build.
Candin Phillips 29:15
Because I keep just saying like, gosh, I could just take my ADHD medicine, like, I know, it'd be able to get that done. And we're like on months and months of me just not having the brain power. So that would be definitely a hit. I guess that's a good reminder.
Patricia Sung 29:28
And, you know, you're growing eyeballs, livers, and lungs. Mm hmm. And a lot of times, I had to, like remind myself of like, this amount of energy is going to growing a person, right? And it's okay that I can't do these things over here. Because that energy that would be like making dinner is now going to eyeballs and well, yes. And that's where it is. And there's an I don't get a choice. There's not like, Oh, I'm just not going to make some eyeballs today and I'm going to cook dinner.
Patricia Sung 29:58
It doesn't work like that. So
Patricia Sung 30:00
Oh, that was a really hard. I'm like, I don't even know that really, if I think back to like pregnant Patricia, I don't know that she really believed it. Now it's easy to look back and be like that you had grace.
Candin Phillips 30:10
Yes, I think it was last week I asked my husband what he wanted me to order from Uber Eats or something. And I was like you sure it's got our in today? Today? It was either we iron things, or I cooked a meal. Today I chose said that you had clothes. And he was like, that's fine. It just lacked that was like, everything is like this or that. Which one is more important?
Patricia Sung 30:30
Yeah. Yeah, I had a conversation with my husband when in my second pregnancy. So my oldest was probably like to at the time, and I told him, I'm like, I just, I'm still like, the throwing up has not ended. I don't foresee it ending. Like, I can't do all the things. And we literally had the conversation of like, what matters. I'm like, I got taken care of a toddler keeping up with the house and making food. I can't do all three of these. And I can't let my kid
Patricia Sung 30:55
on base, I think care about so it's like, do you want me to cook food? Or do you want me to clean? Like, keep the house up? And like, I mean, not even like, you know, we had a cleaning person. So it wasn't like scrubbing toilets. But just like the mere putting things away was so hard. Duff. Yes, yeah. And so he said, I would rather have the house organized than home cooked food. And so like, he definitely picked up more of the cooking, and which obviously, is a sacrifice on his part, you know, working all day. And right at the time, he was still traveling a lot for work. But like I told him, like, we're gonna have to just eat out a lot. Like, I just can't, I cannot. And I think having those conversations with yourself and your partner of like, where do I Where do our priorities lie? Because it is, especially when you're in like a family unit getting their two cents, right is helpful, like, do you want to cook the food? Or do you want to buy the food because it's
Patricia Sung 31:49
like, you know, when you're on the same page, it's a lot easier than if I had just decided cooking food was more important. And then I come to find out like, really, he can, because the house is missing it that really bothers him. So like, in that case, it was like I can make the sacrifice to figure out like one of these things can happen, but not both. And I'd rather pick the one that everybody is going to be feeling better about. Because also like pregnant me did not want to cook any food anyways, like everything smelled me. Yeah. So having those conversations is a really valuable piece, whether you're doing with a partner or on your own is to know like, where do your values lie? Because you can't do everything and grow eyeballs? Nope, take care of other kids. Not gonna happen. So what like, obviously, we just ran through some, like, good mom advice there. But like, how else are you managing your symptoms? Given that you mentioned that you're not taking your medicine right now? Like, what are you doing to take care of yourself, so that you can do your best given that you don't have all the same tools in your toolbox that you normally have?
Candin Phillips 32:51
I've definitely paid more attention to how I'm filling my schedule. Whereas before, you know, my son's at school from hour to hour, and I'm filling it up with as much work stuff as I could even that that probably wasn't as healthy either. So
Candin Phillips 33:07
I've definitely taken off some availability on my calendar a little bit, being mindful of like, I'm on the time in between things to kind of eat, you know, before I tried to like skip the meal and do the whole ADHD thing like no, I can't skip I need to eat. Yeah, if it is remotely pleasant outside, I make sure I'm out there for a little bit.
Candin Phillips 33:27
I would love to say I'm doing exercising. I'm not it's more of like I'm planting flowers and being active outside because that feels good for my brain, my soul my body. I call it mom movement. Mom movement. Yes. It's like I don't have time for exercising today. But I have time for mom movement. We can go around in the yard, plant some flowers. Yes, we're connecting. I'm moving. We're doing all the things.
Candin Phillips 33:50
Accepting help, and I'm trying to get better at asking for it. My inlaws moved up here in November, which the timeliness of that was just magical. So not feeling bad. When there's a day that I just have to be like a kinesiologist a couple of hours take him and getting better about being the one that asks in the beginning. I was like honey, you have to ask because I feel really bad asking your parents for.
Candin Phillips 34:16
Whereas I didn't ask for anything at all my first go round. I didn't really have anyone to ask either. So it was this very much like Bootstrap mentality that I'm trying to make sure I'm not doing this time when I've got some people around me.
Candin Phillips 34:27
Yeah, I've always got a day where I don't do anything. Like I've got a one day a week where I schedule nothing. And either that's I decide to clean that day. I decide to walk around target for four hours I decide to sleep, whatever I want to do. That's my day. And that's been helpful.
Patricia Sung 34:42
Yeah, that whitespace is one of my favorite ADHD like, like, I don't know, we call it it's not a trick. I had glare on some. It'd be like, nothing. Yeah, like having it open space, I think is something that's really valuable for people with ADHD and knowing that you have that space
Patricia Sung 35:00
Do whatever you want and feel like that freedom, where you can literally do nothing. If you want, you can do some cool, fun, new hobby that you're diving into. But knowing that you have that open space to let your brain be permission, yeah, is like, Oh, don't get on too far of a tangent here, Patricia. I think that's one of the one of the things that is actually like vital to our existence as a human being. And like when you don't create that space in your day to just take a walk or, you know, wander around target for a few hours, then like, that's why you sit up at night, and your brain won't go to sleep because your brain is like, Oh, look, we're quiet. Let me tell you all the things right now. Give your brain a chance to talk to you all day. Right. But stuff I wanted to do with you. And we haven't gotten to do that. Yet, but 11:38pm sounds. So always like that.
Patricia Sung 35:56
I think that's a really vital piece that is not talked about enough in understanding how or not Yeah, yeah. And it is very hard to find as a mom. It is. It is and I needed permission. And I love that my husband pretty much every week goes, What's your Thursday look like? Nothing. Good. So you've kept it open? Yes, I've kept it open. So like he's always reinforcing? Yeah, you know, checking me on that? Because he knows I will. Oh, well, okay, I'll do this, or I'll do that. And he holds me accountable, which feels good, because it cuts down on that kind of RSD of like, I'm being lazy because I'm not doing anything this day. Yeah. And it also feels a lot. What's the word I'm looking for? I think it's easier to say no to those other things.
Patricia Sung 36:39
Like you don't feel as guilty for saying no to the thing on Thursday, when you know, you're gonna have to report back and say, Thursday's empty. It makes you feel like more solid in your Yeah, you're known. Yeah, yeah. Confident. Yeah. Because a lot of times we think we are being lazy when we have this space that's not structured or scheduled. I mean, and again, like a whole tangent I, oh, yeah. Like allowing yourself that space to do nothing is not, in my opinion, not nothing. No, not at all. It's a hard thing to break, especially if you come from I mean, you know, you are a teacher. So you went in somewhere, and you worked these very typical hours, and it was insane. And it was nonstop. And now what we're doing is very different. And the brain wants that often tell me if there's space, you're in a moment of downtime, I should be doing something.
Patricia Sung 37:32
And like not even to like, I mean, like there's the whole layer of like having trauma that makes you feel like you need to be doing something it's like there's so many reasons.
Patricia Sung 37:41
You feel like you can't stop and, and slow down for a minute.
Patricia Sung 37:46
And I'm like, Oh, I so wanted, I'm like, Oh, just just dive into the rabbit hole. No Stanczak Patricia, like, that is that could be for whole episodes of this. Yes, I know.
Patricia Sung 38:00
I will just leave it at you are not being lazy, that open space that whitespace is needed for our brains. And, and I will I will not get on my soapbox. Okay.
Patricia Sung 38:11
Before we continue on, I want to say thank you to our sponsors whose support allows me to bring you this podcast for free. I have reduced the mental load as a mom by using the Skylight calendar. Over the last few months, it has been in our kitchen with adorable pictures of our family and our family calendar. So this keeps me from being the gatekeeper. I love that it is visually color coded. There's a chore chart with emojis for kids who are still learning how to read. The app is super convenient, and you also have the option to connect it to your digital calendar.
Patricia Sung 38:42
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Patricia Sung 38:42
Next question. Obviously, I like I said earlier, neither one of us are doctors. But I mean, a lot of moms will ask me like should I take my medicine? Should I not take my medicine? Does anybody here should? How do you give moms confidence in whatever decision they make about their medicine choice? One, like you said,
Candin Phillips 38:42
I always revert them back to their doctor. And I'm thrilled when I hear that they are working with either a psychiatrist or an OBGYN whatever it is, that's treating the whole human and you know, oftentimes they'll say something like yeah, we're going to we're going to try to give you a little bit of this med because you being a dead mom serves nobody because for some people taking whatever medicine or stopping whatever medicine really is a threat to their livelihood to their safety, whatever and for many women ADHD is that intense. It really does impact their their ability to function safely instead
Candin Phillips 40:00
of love when a doctor is able to talk to them and go, we're going to still treat you as the woman, right and do all the things we can to keep your baby say,
Candin Phillips 40:09
because then you're not lost as a patient in that part, too. So it's always please talk to your person, please advocate for what your struggles really are. Don't hide, don't be ashamed of hiding, like, when I do or don't take my medicine. This is what life is really like. Yeah, because you know, there is no right or wrong, there's not enough test to know all the things you really kind of got to figure out and talk to your doctor about it. Yeah, that's kind of where I go. Yeah. And I think I do want to highlight that, like, the reason we don't know whether or not it's okay to take the medicine is because it hasn't been studied. There's not enough study, like there's a few.
Patricia Sung 40:46
And if I say I have it on my, my, my brain is I want to go through and grab a couple of those so people can pull those resources. But so if I find them before I post this, there'll be in the show notes. Yeah, it really just comes down to they haven't done enough studies to like when they say in medicine is safe or something. They're like, 1000 bazillion percent sure that this is okay. Right. So they can't see that yet, because they haven't done enough studies. Because, again, try not to get on soapbox here, Patricia, like women as a whole have not been studied. Well, in science, like usually they pick men because they don't have fluctuating hormones. So they're much more dare I say, boring.
Candin Phillips 41:24
They're a study subject to study, because there's not going to be the hormone fluctuations that come with right with being well, in anything with pregnancy. And safety is hard. Because who's going to be the bond that's like, Hey, I'm really into wit to risk, right? Yes, like, Yeah, let's test this out on me. No, no problem. Which is why I think all the time when we're even looking for supplements, we're asking if we can drink a certain juice is this whatever, okay. And everyone's like, it's really hard to study pregnancy kids who's going to be the mom, that's like, I'll be the guinea pig. Like, yeah, that's fair. But it does leave us in a state of anxiety because every other article, every other thing is a little bit this way, a little bit that way of a suggestion or safety or whatever. Which is why I don't think anyone has the the blanket answer. It's good talk to your, your people. Be honest about what your struggles are, and your decisions. Very personal. Yeah. And it. One of the things that I think, like as society as a whole is a lot of times when it comes to a mom who is pregnant, that the baby gets the focus over the mom. And so it does have to be a full picture. Because your baby needs you.
Candin Phillips 42:27
They need you to be healthy. So you're not the afterthought, which is what it feels like a lot. Right process, right? Which is what is great with a doc, yeah, when the doctors like no, if, if your hormones are not even hormones, if your stress levels are too high, that also affects the baby. So, you know, like, we're not just gonna all of a sudden drop you off of four or five different series medicines you've been taking, and just be like, best of luck. I always get concerned when that's the approach of like, okay, but you're saying you're concerned about the baby that but you're not really because my mental state while I'm writing it directly affects the baby long term like that has long term effects, not just are they going to be born? So anyway, I could do the whole soapbox as well. Yes. So I'm like, I'll sum it up with you are important to you matter to you are not just the festival of Corona you like, it's so matters, how your Yeah, it matters how you're doing as well.
Patricia Sung 43:23
So that's the conversation that I want moms to have with their doctor is like, what do you need in this situation? And that, and it is scary to have that conversation? Because you do have to be honest and sharing the struggles of what's actually going on? Like, what does it mean when I don't have that medicine? Right? A lot of times, if you have someone who doesn't take the time to really talk through it with you, they may not realize the struggle that you're under. And it's scary to say like, wait, wait, hold on what like this is this matters, this is not a good place for me to be in. So having that honest conversation is really important. And I also recognize that it's hard to do so.
Patricia Sung 44:03
Okay, Megan asks, I can't finish my master's thesis, what do I need to do?
Candin Phillips 44:10
Bless your heart.
Candin Phillips 44:13
That sounds like me and the frickin online system that I can't figure out. Oh, I think that's when we go back to just like, all the really small things of taking it in very small chunks, figuring out what time of day your brain is remotely more capable of finishing it.
Candin Phillips 44:32
Doing some physical activity right before you have to do it boosting your dopamine levels, listen to music, whatever it is eat. It's like let's pack every little tip we can possibly give you into that moment. Be realistic about how long you can work on it, or someone to body level with, to kind of for you to even just verbally process as you're going along to kind of keep you going.
Candin Phillips 44:52
That's a hard time
Patricia Sung 44:56
and I think any way that you can take a like an ADHD away
Patricia Sung 45:00
making things easier will be helpful of like, if Writing is hard. Can you just talk it out and then go back? And so like, anything that's going to make it easy for you? Yes. Do you need to leave your house because you're distracted by all the things that you need to do write the house, or the fact that you want to sleep on the couch, like, half the time I get energy going to sit at a coffee shop and work to get more done. I love to verbally processing Yeah, I can tap into my computer or my phone and get a lot more out than typing. Yeah. So hopefully I'm like, Yep, we're both like, feeling. That's hard. Sometimes it's just knowing like, you're not alone. That is a hard thing you're doing. Yes. on its own. Without Yeah. Without pregnancy. Without ADHD, that is a hard thing to do. And then you layer in all these other pieces of who you are. Yes. And maybe advocate for yourself, talk to your professors. Yeah. You know, I don't know what support they can give you or grace they can give you but, yes. Okay, one more question. From I'm like, guessing by this handle, I'm gonna see Anna, and why did I feel so good during pregnancy and so awful afterwards? Well, martra
Candin Phillips 46:07
Because we do swim on a cloud of estrogen
Candin Phillips 46:11
during pregnancy, and then, you know, like we said, for many women, it feels like a lot of their ADHD symptoms were kind of helped with that. And then the minute as we know, when we have a kid, all those hormones come crashing down. Even for the non ADHD women, it all comes crashing down. You are it's not just because of your ADHD that after you've had a baby, you're like, I feel like the bottom of the barrel right now. That's an across the board. fluctuation.
Patricia Sung 46:39
joys of being a woman and having a baby. Yeah, I think in that time of asking for support there too, like, it's expected that it's going to be difficult, which I don't think we talked about enough to be honest. Like, like, nobody told me what to expect. And like everyone was like, well worried about like, the pregnancy and read so many books, but like, I didn't read any, like, what happens after right now. I'm just trying to get the baby out.
Patricia Sung 47:03
And that happens. Yeah. And then like all the, you know, the fluctuations in your hormones, and your all the work that your body is doing to recover from that very hard work you did, and put all your organs back into place that they belong and you know, heal a wound. And yeah, like, that's a lot. It's a lot on your body. Just that, yeah. And knowing going into, like having that grace for yourself, and it's gonna be really hard. And then also, like, asking for help from your medical team you like, it drives me bonkers, that a lot of times like your six week checkup, they're just like, how are you feeling now? And they're good. Alright, you're good to go. And you're like, wait a second, whoa, whoa, whoa,
Candin Phillips 47:42
whoa, whole other piece of my body, besides the whole of the baby came out of you guys. That
Candin Phillips 47:48
is, you know, unfortunately, it is going to be on us as moms to voice that of like, what about the rest of me? Like, I need help with this or, and it's scary. And you know, there's a whole again, another, we could spend a whole episode on this one. But, but for our pregnant and getting there, like, I think a helpful thing I did in a birthing class with my husband and I was we talked about that, like she was very intentional. She with a doula that was kind of walking us through it. And we went through these very specific questions and like, things for him to check in with me on so if whatever your partner is, you know, what does it look like when I'm not okay? And then when I'm really not okay, what could that look like? And kind of plan for because sometimes, you know, I hear a lot of fears about postpartum depression, anxiety.
Patricia Sung 48:32
You know, what if I don't know what if I'm not listening? What if I don't have help, but no one believes me. So the prep conversations about Yeah, incredibly helpful. Yeah. And like, my, my husband was the one who was like, This is not okay. Like, this is not right, how this should be. This is not how it should be. And I'm always like, the word should in quotes like this. There's red flags here that this is not going well, like, right, here I am. I have a two week old and I'm like, can I give it back? I don't want to do this anymore. Like, thankfully, he was like, Okay.
Candin Phillips 49:02
I'm gonna make an appointment. Right, right.
Patricia Sung 49:05
Yeah. And I think also just being able to talk about it and know that that's normal. Like, I'm very lucky, I had a friend who had gone through postpartum anxiety, which I hadn't even heard of before. She told me about it. I only heard of postpartum depression. I didn't even know that existed. And she was the one who shared about it when I was pregnant. So when my husband was like, hey, this, I don't I don't think this is right. I call back that conversation and being like, oh, there it is. Yeah. So I went to her and said, like, can you give me the name of your doctor so that I could talk to somebody and I ended up not being able to see her doctor, but she referred me to another person who was open. But like, it was the starting point of having of getting help, right is knowing that it can be really hard, and it probably will be really hard and having that plan in place of like, what should we do? If I'm not going well, right. I'm incredibly grateful for that class. And I had one friend who was really honest, she was like, we're gonna sit here and talk about intrusive thoughts as
Candin Phillips 50:00
Like, okay, she's like, we're gonna really dive into what these are going to possibly be like, and thankfully, she was a therapist too. And I was like, Oh, I had no idea. I could get that kind of dark. And I'm so glad you told me because I mean, they did. They came flooding. And it's like, there are certain things now that every time a friend of mine is pregnant, especially for the first time, I'm going okay, I'm gonna be honest with you, because I don't want you to freak out. Yes, here we go. This is beautiful. And also scary things can happen. And I don't want you to think you're a terrible mom. Yeah. Because they're coming to you. So yeah.
Patricia Sung 50:28
Yeah, no. And I had all those as well. And you just at the beginning, you never think like, oh, I'm going to be worried about you know, what if I killed my baby, somehow, right? In the all the bliss of pregnancy, nobody ever says that. And then here you are at 3am. You're the only human awake that you think, obviously, there's like, but you think you're the only person awake? And you're sitting there in the dark with your thoughts up with a baby. And you're like, there's something wrong with me. And it's not. I mean, yeah, it is a red flag, you want to do something about it. You shouldn't have to live like that. You don't have to stay in that dark place. But it's a very common thing. And there are there's help out there for that you don't have to stay there and be a miserable person. Right. And your life, wondering about becoming a mom that does? Like you don't stay there forever? Yes, it is a temporary phase after like, when all those hormones are swirling around. We wouldn't keep doing this. If that wasn't forever stage. Yes. So it's not, it's not like everybody's miserable. No, you're not trying to scare everybody. But
Patricia Sung 51:33
I want moms to know that all these scary things that could happen, that there is support available that there is help, and you are not going to have every problem that we have discussed today, by any means. But knowing what you want to do about those proactively, and having that support around you. How can you have that support team? Right, going into that you're not on your own? Right? helps a lot. Yeah, and I think, especially for those that are like scared of the idea of becoming a mom or considering getting pregnant, like one of the best things you can do is start practicing asking for help now, because ADHD women, we tend to be really bad at that. So you're gonna have to do that as a mom start practicing now.
Candin Phillips 52:17
That's like, prep work. Yeah. I love that. Okay. All right. Before I ask you the lightning round questions, how can moms connect with you? What do you like? How can you help people who have Where do they find you? Yeah. So on Instagram, humanity_hive. And I'm currently like I said in the process of shifting my website around and thankfully to pregnancy brain that's taking longer time. But I've got links in there to packages, you can do consultation calls with me to kind of talk about what you're looking for, because he's a good fit. A lot of times, which is on my page isn't all that there is, you know, we'll tweak things and make it work and all that kind of stuff. I often give out my email people are welcome to DM me, and I'll send out free resources, that kind of stuff all the time. So yeah, Instagram is where I'm living. All right, lightning round questions. All you have to do is fill in the blank. You don't have to explain anything. Just Just fill in the blank. Okay. Okay. Number one, the best thing that I've read or listened to recently is the house on the civilian safe.
Candin Phillips 53:21
Number two, my most boring about me fact is I play Harry Potter in the background, like, endlessly. It's just like my background sounds.
Patricia Sung 53:30
Number three, when I'm having a rough day may go to quote song poem, book, podcast activity, whatever is any kind of 90s Wrap, and therefore somewhere around 9096 All right, number four, don't tell anyone I Oh, I tell everyone all my crap. Anything. No cracks me up. Almost every person I interview I would say probably 75% of them say that. Like I have. I'm just open book.
Candin Phillips 53:55
At this point, I'm shaping on my on the internet. What would I possibly hide now?
Candin Phillips 54:03
Don't tell anyone. I don't know that my feet smell worse than my husband's
Patricia Sung 54:08
number five. If I had a magic fairy wand for one spell? I would. Oh, I can't think of any right now. I would I would fairy away PCOS hair growth.
Patricia Sung 54:21
That's what I would do. Or PCOS. Maybe I should just make that bigger. PCOS say I'm like, I know this is I'm like I'm running the lightning round. But I think that's something that so many women with ADHD deal with. And again, not talked about enough. No, yeah, I would. PCs would be gone. Number six. My best piece of advice for mamas with ADHD is you're doing great and it's okay to ask for help. Does it make you a failure? I think we could all get that one tattooed on our foreheads. Yep. Thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it and yeah, your honesty and just having a really open conversation about the struggles but also the help that comes with motherhood.
Candin Phillips 55:00
yeah absolutely thanks for having me
Patricia Sung 55:03
for more resources classes and community head over to my website motherhoodinadhd.com